Which long pips has most reversal in the 40+ plastic ball era ?

[Рәйхана Bashkiriya]

Pro choppers such as Gionis, Joo, Xi and Filus all use high grip pimples with low reversal

So a high grip pimples will have low reversal ?

Reversal also depends a lot of incoming spin. All these players use classic defence away the table so strategy is consistency and manipulate the return with more or less backspin & placement.

True, but the question was NOT about incoming spin or

10 or so other parameters of long pip design

& how they effect reversal.
Assuming all other factors are the same, the question is whether high grip pimples (such as Frint long 3) will have lower reversal than say a lower grip rubber

I will wait for Rob M's answer

[Julia]

I think chasing after reversal is a fool's errand
Good luck!

200% incorrect

Rversal (as in back spin) is one of the few most dominant if not the most dominant parameter for consideration while chossing a long pips.

I think chasing after reversal is a fool's errand in at least two ways:

1) It's extremely limited in its applicability - more is not better - it's just predictable, and any decent player will be able to cope with the reversal of spin.

200% incorrect.
It may be predictable to certain extent bit not completely especially at the amateur level. Even at the pro level a looper may adjust a bit but not completely. It is extreme nonsense to claim that any chopper should be able to play with a 1.1 Aspect Ratio rubber because ITTF knows what is good for you.REALLY . Have you measure the looper torture index using a 1.1 AR rubber and compared it with a High Aspect Ratio Super long pips such as Magic 77 , against the set of loopers ?

I think chasing after reversal is a fool's errand in at least two ways:

1) Against weaker players who don't understand, or can't cope with heavy spin of any sort, sure, it can be effective, but generally, I think it's a bit of a one tricky pony.

Wrong again. Are you comparing players of more or less equal skill level ? Also you are also admitting that at the lower levels a HIgh AR Super Long pips with much higer spin reversal will be more useful than a useless low aspect ratio LP on ITTF's LARC ?

2) We're talking about comparing "not much" against "not much", compared to earlier times. There's no magic pill here - the world has changed, and if you want most legal reversal from a LARC-listed rubber, probably the best approach is a flanti, but really, sticking within the rules, you're just not going to find anything with "lots" of reversal.

This statement is such extreme nonsense that it is not worth responding.

So what you are saying is that the robotNazi controlled ITTF has nothing but the honorable intentions and knows what is good for a chopper and use what they tell you to use, while they wll continue to illegally suck on criminal glues

I think chasing after reversal is a fool's errand in at least two ways:
I agree with vanjr and rob - there are other ways to play with LP which are more effective than relying on reversal... think about placement, consider playing some aggressive shots, or go for something which allows you a bit more variation.

So why even bother using long pips at all ? Why not just use short pips if you are magician like Hou Yingchao ?

Again, I am by no means saying that spin reversal is the ONLY parameter. But for an amatuer it is much harder to handle these parameters such as placement & aggressive shots. I am not saying that it cannot be done but all I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with ALSOchoosing the best avaialble rubber to start with that is best for the 40+ ball era.

I think I win most LP points by using my ability to control the ball, and place it somewhere difficult, either to simply cause them to lose the point, or to give me a shot I can then attack. Second most would be aggressive punches / pushes / flicks. I don't think I win many points "from" reversal any more, apart from against weak players who don't understand what is going on.

All this is true but again does it also mean that I also should NOT choose a rubber with high reveral as well because the robotNazi controlled iTTF passed 7 changes since 1983 in the best interests of me a chopper ? REALLY ?

I would also echo what others have said, that if you really do want reversal, the best way is a very hard, very fast blade, and probably dtecs. However, that's a double-edged sword too, as the harder and faster the blade, the harder it is to control your shots, and the more likely you are to make mistakes.

Good luck!

A stiff hard blade with lower dwell time (such as Sardius or Timo Boll Tri Carbon or a ZLC blade) will give more spin reversal ? REALLY ?
A rubber like Dtecs will give you more spin reversal than Frint Long 3 or Ilius ? REALLY ?

It makes me so sad when players refuse undestand the basics how various long pips parameters work. Keepin all other parameters the same, a less grippy (meaning less frictione) rubber like Dtec does NOT give more reversal than Feint Long 3 or Ilius(both Feint Long 3 & Ilius have rougher pip tops than Dtec and are more grippy and give more reversal. Iluis S(lice) has even more reversal because of softer sponge than Ilius B(lock)). Tibhar Dtec has more disruption because of lesser friction ( probably few other parameters)

Lot of players seem to be under the delusion that rougher pips top rubbers (such as in Feint Long or Ilius) will have less reversal than relatively smoother top pips such as Dtec or RITC 755. This is just plain nonsense.

Rubbers such as Dtec or 755 may have some spin reversal but that is possibly due to other pip design paarmeters such as pip flexibility but NOT due to pip top friction. Keeping all other parameteters the same, a frictionless rubber (meaning LESS grippy & more glaasy pip top and sides) just does NOT have more spin reversal than a grippy rubber.

Again there are so many pip design parameters that can effect pip behavior.
Take a look at

Pips parametric analysis

for more information