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stilltt wrote: replied on Monday February 5 , 2024

SamA wrote: replied on Monday February 5 , 2024

Twiddler wrote: on Monday February 5 , 2024
Why do so many people play Pickleball?

1. Because it is FUN- that's 1 and 1A.

2. Because it is simple.

3. It provides a nice physical workout.

Table tennis is not that much fun. The learning curve, the spin and countless different materials make it very difficult to play.

Hardbat TT is the equivalent of Pickleball. It provides all 3 of the above. Fun, simple and good exercise.

Table Tennis growth will stay stagnant forever without this part of the sport flourishing.

Let us just assume this is true.

Can you please explain how EXACTLY you would change ITTF's current table tennis then ? (Keep in mind that the two previous ITTF presidents have already tried this (by different methods) ........to turn table tennis into pickleball)

Unless of course you suggest that ITTF abandon sponge table tennis completely and we all go back to sandpaper & hardbat

He’ll correct me if I’m wrong but I’m quite sure he meant actively promoting hardbat in existing clubs parallel to the spin game, for example reserving tables for hardbat, adding more hardbat events in tournaments, organizing hardbat leagues, special hardbat nights, Saturday and/or Sunday mornings hardbat galore with a brunch buffet in partnership with a restaurant, anything to bring casual players with more chance to see them stick around.

The only problem with this is that
1. stilltt has no freaking clue about how difficult it is for a beginner especially a junior to learn even hardbat. Even if one is limited to hardbat , learning tabletennis is not as easy as learning to play pickleball (or even badminton or tennis). Tabletennis even at its lowest level or even with hardbat is still complex & frustrating to learn. The most fundamental & distinguishing chracteristic of table tennis as compared to other racket sports is spin. Pickleball by its very design aims to remove the spin element. . Nothing wrong with what pickleball choose to do & congratulations & more power to them on their ridiculous & ever growing success in very short time but it is totally idiotic to try to turn table tennis pickleball as the two former ITTF Presidents have tried & failed . Adham Sharara with ridiculous & stupid rule changes & Thomas Weikert with TTX

2. stilltt has no freaking clue about the basic differences between learning to play hardbat domain as compared to sponge domain. If a parent has a child taking lessons, what shoudl the child be taking lessons in ? Hardbat or sponge or both ?

3. If I was a manufacturer like Butterfly or Stiga, I would be really really stupid to allow a club thet I sponsor hardbat events & all the retro hardbat & sandpapaer crap as it severely cuts into my profit margin of selling more expensive & replacement oriented rubbers such as spinny inverted rubebrs & even glorified inverted dead piece of crap rubber like anti or long pips which are designed to haev pips fall off afetr few months of use & need replacement. Why the hell would I allow hardbat & sandpaper when all it does is severely interfere with the proper stroke development in the sponge domain (the strokes are very different for hardbat and spinny inverted. A talented athlete like twiddler can adjust going back and forth between hardbat & spinny inverted but most players cannot and I would be crazy to pay good money to twiddler if he is going to allow my child too waste time learning hardbat crap)

Twiddler wrote: on Monday February 5 , 2024

Hardbat TT is the equivalent of Pickleball. It provides all 3 of the above. Fun, simple and good exercise.

Table Tennis growth will stay stagnant forever without this part of the sport flourishing.

I agree

Dell Sweeris should have coached Danny Seemiller to use hardbat & not smooth inverted rubber & anti rubber
Danny Seemiller should have coached Mark Hazinski to use hardbat (at Olympics)
Larry Hodges should have coached Todd Sweeris to use hardbat (at Olympics)
Houshang should have coached Jim Butler to use hardbat (Olympics)
Tim Boggan should have coached Eric Boggan to be like Scott Boggan & use short pips and not smooth inverted rubber & anti rubber

Danny Seemiller & Larry Hodges are now coaching all their junior students only to play in junior hardbat events at US Open & US Nationals . They no longer coach youth to play using spinny inverted rubbers (but not anti & God forbid so called long pips)

Oh yeah juniors using hardbat flourishing (& not smooth rubbers) will make table tennis wildly popular among American youth and table tennis will surpass pickleball.

I don't want to come off as mocking twiddler, a legend in the sport. But I have to be honest but it sounds like a case of "Do as I say & not as I do"
I have to think" What the hell he used anti all his life" & now it is as if he found religion & God & wants all newbies especially juniors to play with holy hardbat. Does he ?

Some of my favorite athletes are Richard Bergmann & Angelica Rozeanu & even Marty Reisman.
Hardbat was great until sponge domain arrived. Yes there are serious problems with sponge domain table tennis but reverting to hardbat is not the magic solution to get table tennis replace pickleball especially in USA. This kind of thinking is pure nonsense.
Table tennis even at hardbat level is quite complicated and takes years to get a clue. It is nonsensical to compare table tennis to pickleball, which is vey well designed by removing all the spin of table tennis to be able to learn to play easily within hours. But most players stay with table tennis only because of excitement & love of spin. Spin is like the ultimate drug. Removing spins will only result in driving even more players away from the sport.
I find it extremely offensive that twiddler complains about too many different material in table tennis while he himself has used one such material (anti) all his life.
I purposely brought up Danny Seemiller, Todd Sweeris & Jim Butler because these are all great hardbat players. But that in no way proves that a low level less talented amateur (especially a junior) can play in both hardbat domain & sponge domain & especially switch back and forth in the same tournament like US Open or US Nationals. Adding hardbat events for juniors at US Open & US Nationals borders on child abuse in my opinion. The strokes are quite different for hardbat domain & sponge domain & while super talented players like players like Danny Seemiller, Todd Sweeris & Jim Butler can adapt and switch back & forth , most less talented schmucks cannot. This nonsense has to stop.

But I am still openminded this & if twiddler & Larry Hodges can convince me that they can coach an average (not the super talented) junior player to switch back & forth between hardbat & sponge domains (without getting confused with their strokes in both sponge & hardbat domains & won't impede their development) , I will admit that I am wrong & USATT should continue have junior events in hardbat in like events like US Open & US Nationals