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allencorn wrote: on Sunday December 03 at 08:31
Playing with long pips on BH and inverted on FH and having the option to flip presents a dilemma for hittable balls to my backhand. Hitting with the long pips produces a weirder ball, but it is slower and seems to require more precision, as it floats. Flipping and hitting with inverted is faster and spinnier, but requires flipping in time to make the shot. I typically flip after I hit, but before my opponent hits, and have not yet developed the timing to flip to the inverted on demand when needed.

I notice that at the pro level, folks rarely attack with their long pips, but almost always use the inverted when attacking with their backhand. I assume at that level the weirdness doesn’t bother them as much and the slowness is more of a disadvantage. At the level of mere mortals, the weird hit with long pips seems to be more effective.

Curious what others have found and what they rely on more - flipping and hitting with inverted or hitting with their long pips.

The correct word to use for what you have described in not "flip".
Because the word "flip" has been traditionally associated with an actual stroke in table tennis. It is usually a short forehand stroke played over the table and is sort of an aggressive attack stroke.

The proper word you are looking for in reference to what you are asking about & traditionally used in table tennis is "twiddle"

Just ask " twiddler " (in your country) LOL
He can teach you both flip & twiddle

vanjr wrote: Tuesday 04 December 2024, 00:41
I think pros use more sponge on the LP side so that allows them to not flip and still come out OK.

Which "over the table" pro social pips blocker uses sponge ?
I cannot think of many but it is sort of a mixed bag
Most use OX but I would classify them as defensive social pips players

But there are a few at the table players like HE Zhuojia use sponge
Current Asian champion, Kim Kum Yong of North Korea also uses sponge under her Victas Curl PiV

Yes you are correct . They do not twiddle because the " spin contrast " of their social pips against forehand inverted is significantly lower compared to what a backhand soicial pips OX against a forehand inverted rubber can give

BTW OX users, Ni XIa Lian Manka Batra twiddle a lot during rally.
I don't think Sreeja Akula & Yashaswini Ghorpade twiddle a lot.......they probably should

On the other hand almost all pro choppers (the few that still exist) use social pips or wide pips with sponge.
This is needed because the incoming top spin oof the rackets of illegally boosted loopers will shoot off the wood if these players use OX pips.
But upto a level of USATT 2300 or so, OX pips are good enough.

In fact amateur choppers should ONLY be using OX pips because of excellent control as well the higher spin contrast against forehand inverted.
Amateur choppers defintely need to develop twiddling because the forehand chop using OX social pips will have a very high "spin contrast" compared to a chop using inverted on both sides.
The spin contrast will be even igher if the forehand is wide pips with sponge. The chopes with wide pips will be so unspinny (so to speak) compared to the very spinny chops using social pips. BUt it will be lot more effective on forehand because almost mo one has mastered this technque at the amateur or pro level.

Note :- Social pips = so called "long" pips listed on ITTF LARC. There are no "long" pips in ITTF table tennis.
ITTF continue sto use the word "long" deceptively to brainwash the clueless defenders
Long pips were banned from ITTF table tenni sin 1983 & confirmed in 1998.
Soical pips are pure dysfunctional garnage in the current 40+ plastic ball ONLY era due to the 12 rule & regulation changes by the ITTF since 1983 to severe ly limit teh capabilitief of defenders so that the nooster supremacists can enjoy their illegal VOCful spein glues & boosters better