Is penhold still viable ?

[James Z]

Jul 11, 2023 #1
I’ve been playing with penhold grip for a while now and I find it comfortable and fun (I have shakehand experience too) but (although I’m getting decent at backhand returns) the backhand is kind of a weak point and I’ve been told to switch to shakehand for a better backhand. My forehand is noticeably better on penhold but backhand is better on shakehand. I’ve been trying to find unique grips online but no luck. Is penhold viable and what should I do?

Nothing to do with whether a grip is not viable or not is general.
But only matters on an individual case by case basis

if you are blessed to be able to play with penhold, the best grip, then good
But if you are cused toplay with shakehand , then you cannot force penhold
It is about what is the most viable & natural for you as anindividual not what Ma Long (shakehand) or Liu Guo Liang (hybrid penhold)

More on this in my next reply below

[James Z]

Reasons why penhold is still very much viable & is also the best grip​

Yet another case of right answers to the wrong question in (table tennis) forums.

I am not trashing the OP because I am not all blaming him for asking the question however because if he had known the answer he would not have asked in the first place. So it is perfectly OK & I will answer.

It does not matter penhold is viable or not in tabletennis. Assuming you are a competitive player ( & not an exercise player), if penhold is your natural grip, that is what you should pursue PERIOD

I know of or heard of quite a few coaches who try to convert penholders into shakehanders. This probably happens in all countries other than in far east since penhold is well known in the far east.

Supposedly because of supposedly a weak penhold backhand, which has become less & less true.

Because from what I heard, even the 1961, 1963 & 1965 World Champion Zhuang Zedong had a stronger backhand than his forehand. He was a TPG player.

I always wondered if Zhuang Zedong would have beaten the 1967 World Champion Hasegawa. would have beaten Zhuang Zedong ( Zhuang did not defend his title at the 1967 World Championships since China did not participate)

Hasegawa used to be a penholder but switched to the weirdest shakehand grip when he won. He had his finger right up the middle on the backhand side like many basement players do & even more strange is that he was supposedly one of best lobbers in his time .
And zccording to English Champion Chester Barnes in his book, Hasegawa supposedly had the fastest loop along with Danny Seemiller Sr. , who had his own famous grip. More on this below.

TPG (Traditional Penhold Grip) means, backhands are also played using same side of racket from forehand side) player. 3 time world champion Zhuang Zedong & Two time World champion Jiang Ji Liang used this TPG , as does Chinese born Spain player He Shewen

RPG (Reverse Penhold Grip) with RPL (Reverse Penhold Loop) arrived via HPG (Hybrid Penhold Grip) as pioneered by Liu Guo Liang.

HPG (Hybrid Penhold) players use both TPG & RPG. But LGL (Liu Guo Liang)’s HPG is better than XU Xin or Wang Hao’s RPG

This is because LGL used short pips on forehand to hit & top spin. And he also did TPG blocks with pips from his forehand on his backhand . He also used spinverted on backhand to loop. He also occasionally twiddled boldly & cleverly at key points of a match such as deuce etc to loop from his forehand using spinverted.

One sided grips such as Penhold or American grip are better grips than shakehand grip, but ONLY if penhold or American grip is your best natural grip.

What is an American grip ?
This is generally known as Seemiller grip but it would be more appropriate to call it the American (basement) grip because both Dan Seemiller Sr & Eric Boggan used this grip & both were national champions & both reached a world highest rating of #18. (Dan's younger brothers Rick & Randy also use this grip & Dan Rick were once ranked in the top 10 in the world in doubles & Seemiller nrothers reached the top little before Boggan brothers & this is why this grip is better known mostly as Seemiller grip) Seemiller’s grip was more forehand (looping) dominant and Eric Boogan’s grip was more backhand (blocking) dominant & both use spinverted one side & anti on the other side & I have always wondered why they have not moved on to functional super pips more compatible with the 40+ plastic ball ONLY era instead of the now mostly obsolete social anti rubber.

Scott Boggan & Tim Boggan play traditional shakehand & if I am not mistaken, also Dan Seemiller Jr but Eric & Randy Seemiller use American grip
Alexander Karakasavic is a shakehander with one of the best backhands but his father Milivoj Karakaševic was a penholder
I am saying to highlight the fact that a player's grip is more natural & personal & not something you can choose at will.

However my personal favorite grip was a variation of the American grip used by father son combination of Brain & David Shapiro. This was sort of a 4 sided variation of the American grip in that they can use their social long pips or spinverted on both forehand & backhand but without twiddling. I tried to use it but never worked for me & I am cursed with regular shakehand grip.

Why is penhold the best grip ?​
1. More powerful forehand if looping using a spinverted rubber or if flat hitting if using short pips (especially if with fingers spread out on the back of the racket done more by jPen players) This is an extremely crucial factor because (i) for almost all racket sports, forehand is the stronger side for most humans and (ii) tabletennis is a forehand dominant sport lot more than other racket sports for most players, especially amateurs.
2. More spinny & more deceptive serves
3. HPG (Hybrid Penhold Grip) used by Liu Guo Liang using both TPG and RPG at will)
4. No shakehander disease (center weakness)
5. The RPG backhand may be less powerful than shakehand but is more effective than shakehand because it is sort of weird with its natural built in side spin and delayed timing & deception with direction especially when using either fade or hook loop
6. The TPG punch block is more deadly because it is more dead (or can be a side spin block with crazy side spin like Kim Taek Soo's TPG block kill) & can be much faster.

Again, all this is of course theoretically speaking (as you have not seen a high level HPG player after Liu Guo Liang, even Wang Hao & Xu Xin were RPG & of course Zhuang Zedong, Ma Lin, He Shi Wen & Jiang Ji Liang are TPG)

Before the arrival of internet communications It used to be hard to even visualize a penhold grip growing up in a tennis environment (or even other racket sports) far away from the far east as in Europe

Most natural shakehanders are bad penholders but a lot of natural penholders I have seen can also play decent shakehand & can even train to use shakehands strategically in matches

Also if you are a shakehander, even if you can twiddle like crazy using two rubber types , I have never seen a player twiddle while the ball is on its way but with HPG you can decide whether to play a TPG stroke or RPG stroke as the ball is approaching (though this is quite advanced play & I have seen only players like Liu Guo Liang do it)

However you cannot force the issue & try to be a penholder when you are a natural shakehander & vice versa. (This is somewhat similar most of the amateurs trying to be two winged loopers. Because very few of them have looping or other skills or style or consistency on their backhand similar to their looping forehand or like the pros. But they still ty to keep forcing the issue because (i) they want to blindly emulate their favorite pro or (ii) they think it is sexy or (iii) fear of social rejection if they use pips / anti) .

But I have always wondered how a player or a coach can quickly identify the best natural grip for a given player

I posted my reply as the first person to reply to the OP a week or so ago

But it was deleted & won’t be surprised if it happens again or gets moved to the graveyard thread of orphaned posts