Re Comments about Twiddler 's correct analysis on 11 point games Re: WTT champions - Frankfurt 11/3/24

[Loop Freak]

on Monday Novenber 4 , 2024 at 5:57am
I think the upsets are caused by the 3/5.
To win this match you need 33 points- 3 x 11
In the old days to 21 best of 5 one needed 63 points to win- almost double. Even in a 2/3 one had to win 42 points to win.
These matches are too short. Single elimination 3 out of 5 is set up so there are these upsets.

You make a very good & compelling point using objective evidence by numbers about requiring the endurance & consistency to win more points especially at the pro level.
I think Adham Sharara has raped the sport in every which way but I agree with Adham about 11 point games instead of 21 points games. Because the game is never over & at the pro level we need an illusion to the spectators that the underdog at least won a game or two
However I agree with you that 3 out of 5 matches of 11 points having less points & better player not winning. But is the better player really a better player if they cannot win 3 out of 5 (11 point games instead of 2 out of 2(games of 21).
At the pro level you need to weigh the benefits of better & exciting spectator presentation against what is in it for the players themselves. In most other sports , the pros make enough money (or tons more) and so it may be secondary to what most fans want
It would of course be nice if at least all individual matches (not team) were at least 4 out of 7 games, I for one think at least the semi finals of not only singles but even doubles & mixed doubles must be at least 4 out of 7 games (Some events are indeed doing this)
But one has to weigh this against the logistics of longer matches in earlier rounds . It would be difficult. Also if you are a pro, you should have (developed) the endurance & consistency needed to win thru earlier rounds. Yes sometimes you are unlucky but that is life.

[Arnul]

Personally as a spectator I don’t care if Pittsburgh Pirates win in baseball or University of Notre Dame wins in football or who wins the Wimbledon finals. Of course some spectators may have serious irrational alliances such as your hometown pro team though most of these players get traded & come from other towns. Some of these fans will sit shirtless in the -50 F weather the entire football game to profess their loyalty to their favorite (home) team
Upsets are the most exciting parts of any sport. If the same teams or players (from same country …in TT’s case it is China) are going to make the semi finals year after year , what is there in it for the spectators from the rest of the countries . Why even bother to have team events. Just award the trophy to China. Or may be like in the old days of Wimbledon or Davis Cup (I think) , the defending champion only plays the final challenge round against the player or team who has to beat all others to earn the right to play in the challenge round. That obviously was ridiculous & rightfully discontinued.
Hey think about the gladiators who had to fight day after day to entertain the king. You get to rest when you die. LOL

[Referee 3]

on Monday Novenber 4 , 2024 at 5:57am
In the old days to 21

You still are under the spell of Marty Reisman & hardbat LOL

Even if hardbat 21 points is a drag man.
Makes no sense from spectator presentation viewpoint.
11 points are better regardles of whether best of 5 or 7 or 9 games

[Push Looper]

The problem as correctly pointed out by Twiddler is that there are lesser points. But 11 points are better because it is exciting for spectators. So how do you keep 11 point games but also have more points played so the player with higher consistency & endurance has a better chance like when it was with 21 point games ?
The big problem of longer matches is that longer matches take longer to complete especially at earlier rounds
Bellow is a possible solution for various level events

3 out of 5 games matches with 11 point games
This 3 out of 5 games is only good for local national level events such as 1 star to 3 star events in USATT or other countries
Below is suggested format
1. Play continues non-stop without 2 minute break after game 1 going into to Game 2 . There will be a very quick changing of ends from Game 1 to Game 2
2. At the end of Game 2 there will be a 2 minute break
3. Games 3 & 4 (if game 4 is played) will be just like Game 1 & 2. No 2 minute break and quick end switch
4. If there is a game 5 it can be to 13 points or 15 points

4 out of 7 games matches with 11 point games
This should be the standard for
1. Events like WTT Grand Smash finals & possibly semi finals
2. All quarter finals and above in World (continental level) team events
3. All events other than World (or continental) individual championships other than possibly semi-finals & finals
-Below is the format
1. Play continues non-stop without 2 minute break after games 1, 2 and 3 . There will be a very quick changing of ends between games
2. At the end of Game 3 there will be a 2 minute break
3. Games 4 & 5 & 6 4 (if games 5 & 6 are played) will be just like Game 1,2 and 3. No 2 minute break between games 4, 5 & 6 and there will be quick end switching
4. If there is a game 7 it can be to 13 points or 15 points

5 out of 9 games matches with 11 point games
This should be the standard for all the finals (possibly semi finals) of the highest level events such as World (or Continental) Individual Championships
Below is suggested format
1. There will be 3 sets of 3 game matches just like above (if there are games 6 thru 8)
2. If there is a game 9 it can be to 13 points or 15 points
------------------
Currently the biggest problem as I see it is that the semi finals & finals of major events have the same format as earlier rounds.
There is no reason why even the semi-finals & finals of doubles in major events cannot be 7 out of 9 games

[twiddler]

My point is 11 is too short and 21 is too long. I think 15 points is a much better 3/5 match.

[Push Looper]

My point is 11 is too short and 21 is too long. I think 15 points is a much better 3/5 match.

That is an interesting suggestion (13 or 15 points).
But the reason given by Adham Sharara was that you are never out of a game in a 11 point game.
Also I think he did want more upsets.
At the pro level I would say what Adham said make sense from the view point of fans.
Fans in all sports love upsets.
Also if every thing will go according to seedings , then why even bother . Just pick the top 2 or 4.

In fact they used to do this in Wimbledon and Davis Cup long ago.
The winner from previous yeat did not play from first round.
All others play to pick a winner & the winner plays teh winner from previous year.
It was called the challenge round.
Thankfully they hanged it.